ใใใฎใผใใฃใจ็ฉใใชใใใขใใชใใ๏ผใ
= Maggie motto yasenakya motenai yo!
= Maggie, you wonโt attract anybody if you donโt lose weight.
ใใใคใจใใใใชใใกใ๏ผใ
= Daietto shinakucha!
= You have to go on a diet.
We have a guest teacher, Anzu-Sensei today.
My dear Twitter Follower pupulinoใใ sent me this picture. Thank you!! !ochame!
I made a lesson on ๏ฝใกใใย =~chau + ๏ฝใกใใฃใย = ~ chatta before.
Todayโs lesson is on other casual suffixes.
(verbใๆช็ถๅฝข = mizenkai) ย +ย ใชใใกใ = ~ (verb) + naku cha
and
(verb ๆช็ถๅฝขย ย = mizenkei )ย +ย ใชใใ = (verb) +nakya
:n: ๆช็ถๅฝขย = mizenkei = imperfective form
People who just learned formal Japanese from textbooks and/or strict teachers may find this difficult because they are not traditionally taught. Actually we use these suffixes very often in casual conversation.
They mean โto have to do somethingโ or โmust do somethingโ
OK, letโs start!!
When you want to say,
โI have to go nowโ, many of you would translate that as,
A) ใใ(็งใฏ*๏ผ่กใใชใใฆใฏใใใชใ or ใชใใชใใ
= Mou (watashi wa* ) ikanakute wa ikenai or naranai
(more polite) ใใใพใใใor ใชใใพใใใ
= ikemasen. or narimasen.
or
B) ใใ๏ผ็งใฏ*) ่กใใชใใใฐใใใชใ or ใชใใชใใ
= Mou (watashi wa*) ikanakereba ikenai or naranai
(more polite) ใใใพใใใor ใชใใพใใใ
=ikemasen or narimasen.
Note : * We often omit subjects.
* ใชใใชใ ย ( = naranai)ย and ใชใใพใใ ( = narimasen) are more formal than ใใใชใย ( = ย ikenai) and ใใใพใใย ( = ikemasen).
A lot of time we donโt finish the sentences.
โ
ใใ่กใใชใใฆใฏโฆ or ่กใใชใใใฐ
= Mou ikanakutewaโฆor ikanakereba
Now, letโs make them more casual. When we talk to our friends,ย family, orย ourselves, we donโt say,
A) ใใ(็งใฏ*๏ผ่กใใชใใฆใฏใใใพใใใor ใชใใพใใใ
= Mou (watashi wa* ) ikanakute wa ikemasen. or narimasen.
instead, we say,
โ
ใใ่กใใชใใกใ
= Mou ikanakucha
and
B) ใใ๏ผ็งใฏ*)่กใใชใใใฐใใใพใใใor ใชใใพใใใ
= Mou (watashi wa*) ikanakereba ikemasen or narimasen.
will be
โ
ใใ่กใใชใใ
= Mou ikanakya
๐ธSee the change of the suffix?
(verb nai-stem) + ใชใใฆใฏใใใชใ or ใชใใชใ
= (verb nai-stem)ย + nakutewa ikenai or naranai
(verb nai-stem)+ใชใใกใ
= (verb nai-stem)) + nakucha
(verb nai-stem)+ ใชใใใฐใใใชใ or ใชใใชใ
= (verb nai-stem )+ nakereba ikenai or naranai
(verb nai-stem ) +ใชใใ
= (verb nai-stem ) + nakya
โ Telling yourself or other people what you have to do.
Ex. I have to eat.
โขย ้ฃในใชใใ๏ผใใใชใ๏ผ
= tabenakya (ikenai)
โขย ้ฃในใชใใกใ๏ผใใใชใ๏ผ
= tabenakucha (ikenai)
Ex. I have to study.
โขย ๅๅผทใใชใใ๏ผใใใชใ๏ผ
= benkyou shinakya (ikenai)
โขย ๅๅผทใใชใใกใ๏ผใใใชใ๏ผ
= benkyou shinakucha (ikenai)
Ex. I have to reply
โขย ่ฟไบใๅบใใชใใ๏ผใใใชใ๏ผ
= henji wo dasanakya (ikenai)
โขย ่ฟไบใๅบใใชใใกใ๏ผใใใชใ๏ผ
= henji wo dasanakucha (ikenai)
๐ธ When we use them.
โ with possible consequences
Ex. If I donโt study,ย I will fail the exam.
ๅๅผทใใชใใกใ or ใใชใใ ่ฉฆ้จใซๅใใใชใใ
= Benkyou shinakucha or shinakya shiken ni ukaranai.
โ Showing your determination
Ex. I really have to win!
โข็ตถๅฏพใซๅใใชใใกใ(ใใใชใ๏ผor (ใ ใใ ๏ผ
= Zettai ni katanakucha (ikenai) or (dameda)
โข็ตถๅฏพใซๅใใชใใ(ใใใชใ๏ผor (ใ ใใ ๏ผ
= Zettai ni katanakya (ikenai) or (dameda)
โ
When you tell other people what to do.
Ex. You have to study Japanese more!
โขใใฃใจๆฅๆฌ่ชใฎๅๅผทใใชใใกใ๏ผใใใชใใ๏ผor (ใ ใใ ใ๏ผ
= Motto nihongo no benkyou shinakucha (ikenaiyo) or (damedayo)
โขใใฃใจๆฅๆฌ่ชใฎๅๅผทใใชใใ๏ผใใใชใใ๏ผor (ใ ใใ ใ๏ผ
= Motto nihongo no benkyou shinakya (ikenaiyo) or (damedayo)
Ex. You have to go to bed now.
โขย ใใๅฏใชใใกใ(ใใใพใใใ๏ผor (ใ ใใงใใ)
= Mou nenakucha (ikemasen yo) or ( dame desu yo)
โขย ใใๅฏใชใใ(ใใใพใใใ๏ผor (ใ ใใงใใ)
= Mou nenakya (ikemasen yo) or ( dame desu yo)
ย
โ When you tell other people what to do and the possible consequences.
โขย ใใฃใจๆฅๆฌ่ชใฎๅๅผทใใชใใกใ or ใใชใใใใใฎใผๅ
็ใซๆใใใใใ
= Motto nihongo no benkyou shinakucha or shinakya Maggie sensei ni okorareru yo.
= If you donโt study Japanese, Maggie Sensei will chew you out.
ย
ย
ใใฎใผๅ
็ใใ = Maggie Sensei yori = From Maggie Sensei
ใใใๅ
็ใ่จใๆงใซใใใฃใจ้ๅใใชใใกใใญใ
= Anzu sensei ga iu you ni, motto undou shinakucha ikenai wane.
= I guess I should exercise more like Anzu sensei said.
Thank you, Anzu sensei!ย
***
Willย you be my Patron?ย
I appreciate your support!ย ใตใใผใใใใใจใ๏ผ
ย


110 Comments
ใใใซใกใฏใ Maggie ๅ ็ใ
I just have one small question โ I have seen a lot written about the difference between when to use ใใใชใ and ใชใใชใ in terms of the various nuances of obligation. But so far, I cannot find any good explanation about the difference between when to use ~ใชใใใฐ and ~ใชใใฆใฏ. Is there a nuance I am missing, or are they interchangeable and equal formality level?
Thank you in advance for your help!
ใใใซใกใฏ JJ
OK, you know the nuance difference between ใใใชใ and ใชใใชใ already.
ใชใใใฐ and ใชใใฆใฏ are basically the same.
Personally I use ใชใใใฐ for slightly stronger obligation and ใชใใฆใฏ to show oneโs strong will.
ๅ ็ใใ่ฟไบใฉใใใใใใจใใใใใพใใ๏ผ
ใฉใใใใใพใใฆใJJ! :)
Hi Maggie sensei!
I noticed that in many of your examples, you used ~ใชใใ๏ผใชใใกใ and then put ใใใชใ in parentheses afterwards. My Japanese friend always uses the ใใใชใ after she says ใชใใ. Is the ใใใชใ optional? And if it is, does using it make the sentence more formal? Thank you for the great lesson as always!
Hi Emily
Yes, the original form is
Vใชใใใฐใใใชใ/ใใใพใใ
Vใชใใฆใฏใใใชใ/ ใใใพใใ
โ(casual) Vใชใใใปใชใใกใใใใชใใปใใใพใใ
โ(even more casual) you drop ใใใชใใand say Vใชใใใปใชใใกใ
Thank you so much for the help!
Youโre very welcome! โบ๏ธ
Hello maggie sensei!
I donโt know if this place for it, but I went accross this while reading โใใใชๆๅณใใใซใใใใใฎใ โ, and I canโt seem to understand this ใใใซใใใใ part, can you help me ?
Hello,
ใซใใใใ is a very casual (or also a dialect in certain area) way to say ใใชใใใฐใใใชใ
Why do I have to be told to do such a thing.
Thank you for the answer ! But in that case, what is there in the sentence that indicates it is a question, isnโt ใฎใ affirmative ?
Not a question. Why do I have to do that? = I donโt have to do that.
ใฎใ is for statement but when you express your strong feelings.
Thank you for the answer. However, I have but one last question. Isnโt ใชใใใฐใใใชใ โhave to doโ rather than โdonโt have to doโ ? Isnโt the character saying he has to do it ? Sorry for bothering you so long ๐
ใชใใใฐใใใชใ itself means โhave to do somethingโ but by adding ใฎใ you make a question but at the same time you can express your strong feelings of disagreement.
The same idea in English.
I donโt have to do ~: ใชใใฆใใใ
Why do I have to do that? = (ใฉใใใฆ/ใชใ๏ผใใชใใใฐใใใชใใฎใงใใ๏ผ / ใใฎใ (more rough)
How would I say past tense of โI had toโ with short forms such as ใชใใกใใ๏ผใใใชใใ
HI Kikuchan
To make a past tense,
ใชใใกใใปใชใใ๏ผใใใชใใฃใ
I had to go by 6:00.
6ๆใพใงใซ่กใใชใใกใใใใชใใฃใใ
6ๆใพใงใซ่กใใชใใใใใชใใฃใใ
Hey Maggie Sensei, I was reading One Piece and came across this sentence from Luffy. He says, ่นใใ่ฝใกใชใใใใใใใชใใ๏ผIn English it says, โIโll be fine as long as I donโt fall off the boatโ. My mind wants to make it โI have to fall off the boatโ I guess Iโm a little confused about when ใชใใ becomes โAs long I donโt xโ I hope this makes sense!
Hi Desmon
The English translation is correct.
Iโll be fine as long as I donโt fall off the boatโ
Vใชใใใฐใใใชใ (casual Vใชใใใใใชใ) means โhave to do ~ โ but
Vใชใใใฐใใ (casual Vใชใใใใ) means โItโs OK as long as one doesnโt do ~ โ
OK, the basic structure of this sentence is
~ใชใใใฐใใ
Oh, itโs short hand for the negative form! Thank you so much! That really helps!
Youโre very welcome! :)
Howdy madam,
I hope you donโt mind question no.8๏ผon this page (you work too hard ^-^)
Iโm kind of a bad student XD. But i was wondering if my way of breaking down the explanations is not a good way.
E.g:
๏ฝใชใใใฐ๏ผใใใชใ/ใชใใชใ
I explain it to myself as: [if the action is not โableโ to be done]+[โitโ wonโt proceed/become] .
Which when rephrased becomes โmust doโ etc.
I think โableโ, because i think of the ๅพใ sound. Lol I donโt exactly know whyโฆ
With today, i was kind of wondering if the same sort of thought process is possibleใwith your lesson here on:
๏ฝ ็กใ๏ผใกใใ
๏ฝ ็กใ๏ผใ
Thank-you Maggie and staff XD
From Shaun,
Hi Shaun!
Oh is it the 87th question? I had no idea. ๐
๏ฝใชใใใฐ๏ผใใใชใ/ใชใใชใ
the first part ใชใใใฐ [if the action is not โableโ to be done] is actually [if the action is not done]
As for ใชใใกใใปใชใใ,
็กใ๏ผใกใใis kind of make sense but the second one ๏ฝ ็กใ๏ผใ, I wonder how you interpret this little ใ
VใชใใฆใฏใชใใชใใโใชใใกใใVใชใใใฐใชใใชใใโใชใใ
It might be easier to think that this type of casual contraction is similar to โgottaโ in English. It is easier to say that way in spoken Japanese.
>>ใ๏ผใ, I wonder how you interpret this little ใ<<
Well that makes both of us XD.
I think out of a habit i broke down ็กใใใto ็กใ as in ๆฌ ็น็กใโฆ which was a wrong turn i guess.
ใใคใThank you very much.
Haha, OK.
Yes, since this is for casual speech, I think it will be better not to interpret this ใชใ as ็กใ which is very literal.
ใพใใญใโชใ๐
I came across a kya following a te form of verb. Is this even more of a contraction?
The sentence context is a shop keeper saying something like, โJust buy whatever you want,โ I thinkโฆ
ใฆใใใงๆฐใซๅ ฅใฃใใขใณใๆใฃใฆใใใใใ ใใใใ
Iโm not sure about the โmotte kyaโ part, though.
Thanks for your help! :bow:
Hello Ed
Thatโs a very brutal speech (Especially ใฆใใใปใ ใใใ๏ผ
ๆใฃใฆใใใฐใใใงใฏใชใใงใใใ
โๆใฃใฆใใใฐใใใใใชใ
โdrop ใใfrom ๆใฃใฆใใใฐใ(This is another casual contraction) ๆใฃใฆใใฐใใใใใชใใใ
โใใฐโใใ
โๆใฃใฆใใใใใใใชใใใ
โmore brutal ๆใฃใฆใใใใใ ใใใใ
ใใฎใผๅ ็
ใใใฐใใฏใใไน ใใถใใงใใญใ
ใกใใฃใจ่ณชๅใๆใใฎใงใใใใใใชใใกใใใฎ้ๅปๅฝขใฏไฝใงใใใ้ๆฒขๅคงๅญฆใซ็ๅญฆใใฆใใๆใซๅ้ใๆใใฆใใใใใ ใใฉใๅฟใใฆใใพใใพใใใ
ๅฎใใใ้กใ่ดใใพใ
ๅๅฃซ
๏ผ่ฟฝไผธ(P. S.)๏ผ้้ใใๆใใฐใใกใใฃใจ็ดใใฆใใใ ใใพใใใใใใฃ๏ผใใใใใฐใใใฟใพใใใใ่ณชๅใใใไธใคๆใใพใใใใ๏ผใ๏ผใใฐใใจใใใใใใฎ้ใใฏไฝใงใใใ๏ผ
ใใคใๆ้ฃใใใใใพใ (as always, thank you very much.)
ใใใซใกใฏใๅๅฃซ๏ผใ
The past tense of ใใใชใใกใใ is
ใชใใกใใใใชใใฃใ๏ผใชใใชใใฃใ
่กใใชใใกใใI gotta go (now)
่กใใชใใกใใใใชใใฃใใใI had to go.
ใใ๏ผใ๏ผใใฐใ You mean ใใใใฐ๏ผ
Or you simply want to know the difference between ใใ and ใฐ๏ผ
ๅๅฃซใฎๆฅๆฌ่ชใฎๆ็ซ ใ็ดใใจใใใใใพใใใงใใใใใใงใจใใใใใพใ๏ผ
ใใฎใผๅ ็
ใใใฐใใฏ๏ผๅใใใพใใใ่ฟไฟกใใฆไธใใฃใฆๆ้ฃใใใใใพใใ
ใใใงใใญใใใฃใจใใใชๆใใงใ๏ผใ๏ผถใฟๅฝขใใ๏ผฟ๏ผฟ๏ผฟใใใจใๆกไปถ็ณปใ๏ผฟ๏ผฟ๏ผฟใใ
ไพใใฐ๏ผใๆฅๆฌ่ชๅญฆๆ กใๅๆฅญใใใใๅฐ้ๅญฆๆ กใซๅ ฅใใใใงใใใใจใๅคงๅญฆใๅๆฅญใใใฐใๅฝใธๅธฐใใใจๆใฃใฆใใพใใใ
ใใใชใฎใงใใใใกใใฃใจใณใฃใใใใพใใใ๏ผ็ฌ๏ผ
ใใคใๆ้ฃใใใใใพใใ
ใใใซใกใฏ๏ผ
ใใใงใใญใใใใใใใจใใฐใ ใฏๅใใใใซไฝฟใใใใจใใใใฎใงใใใใใฎไบใคใฎไพๆใๆฏในใใจใใฐใใฎๆนใไปฎๅฎใฎๆฐๆใกใๅผทใใงใใ
ใๅๆฅญใใใใใใใ When I graduate from the Japanese school, I would like to study ~
ใๅๆฅญใใใฐใ ใIf I graduate from the university, ~ (It sounds more hypothetical. The speaker is not 100% sure if he/she would graduate)
ใๅพ ใใใใพใใฆ็ณใ่จณๅจใใใพใใใใ
ๅใใฃใใจๆใใพใใใ๏ผถใฟๅฝขใใใฏ็ตถๅฏพใซ่ตทใใใจใใไบใงใใญใใใๆกไปถๅฝขใใฏ่ตทใใใใฉใใๅใใใพใใใใ่ตทใใๅ ดๅใซใใใใฎๆกไปถใใงใใใใใ
่ฑ่ชใง้ใๆธใใฆใใพใใพใใ
The ใ๏ผถใฟๅฝขใใ pattern is used to express that a certain action will be done or that a certain situation will arise upon the completion or occurrence of a matter, action, or state that the speaker is certain will happen.็พใใผใปใณใใง่ตทใใใจใใไบใงใใ
The ใๆกไปถๅฝข, or conditional form, the ใใใฐใ part of the sentence describes the requirements needed for an event or occurrence to manifest itself.
(ใใฎ่ชฌๆใฏ็งใ้ๆฒขใซ็ๅญฆใใๆๆฅใพใใใใใงใใใใฎใผๅ ็ใฎใใใใงใไปๅใใฃใฆใใพใใใ็ฅใใพใใใ)
ใใใงใใญใไธใคใ ใ
Vใใ
็พใใผใปใณใใง่ตทใใใจใใไบใงใใ
โ็งใใใใฐใใฎ่ชฌๆใฎใจใใใงๅๆฅญใใใฎใ๏ผ๏ผ๏ผ๏ผ ็ขบใใงใฏใชใๆใจๆธใใใใใ ใจๆใใพใใใใใไฝฟใใจใใฏๅฟ ใใใ100%่ตทใใใจใใใใใงใฏใใใพใใใ
ใใฎไพๆ๏ผๅๆฅญใใใฐ๏ผใซ้ขใใฆ่จใใฐใๅๆฅญใจใใ่ก็บใๅฎไบใใๆใจใใๆๅณใงไฝฟใใใฆใใพใใ
Your interpretation is right except the part ็พใใผใปใณใใง่ตทใใใจใใไบใงใใ
I think you said 100% because I said โWhen the speaker is not 100 pct sure.โ in the explanation of ~ใฐใbut you use ใใ when you are not 100% sure either.
For that particular example sentences ใใ in ๅๆฅญใใใ, is the completion of โfinishing the school (graduation)โ
ใใฎใผๅ ็
ใใๅฐใ่ใใใใงใใใ่ชฌๆใใฆไธใใฃใฆๆ้ฃใใใใใพใใ
ๅๅฃซ
ใฏใใใพใ่ใใฆๆฉใใงใใใใชใใชใฃใใใใคใงใใใฆใใ ใใใ
ๅใใใพใใ๏ผ
Always appreciate the lessons, so much more useful than standard textbooks.
I was just wondering if there was a casual way of saying donโt have to do.
For example if youโve had a busy week but finally have the day off is ใใชใใกใไบใใชใใฆๅฌใใ correct? I cant help but feel there must be a more natural way of saying it.
Thank you!
Hi jb01
ใใชใใกใไบใใชใใฆๅฌใใ โTechnically ใใชใใใใใชใใใจใใชใใฆๅฌใใ
But it is a direct translation and it doesnโt sound natural. I would say
(ๅฟใใใฃใใใฉ๏ผใใฃใจไผใใใจใใงใใฆใใใใใ
= (I have been busy but) I am happy that I can finally get some rest.
Hi, Maggi sensei!~
I really like all your lessons and the way you explain them~
Everytime I donโt know how to use something or I need to learn something new I always come to your site because your examples and explanations are really good and clear. Thank you so much and please keep it up!~ โฅ
@Miroslava
Thank YOU for visiting this site! Iโm VERY happy to hear you like my lessons!
I guess I have to work harder!! ใใฃใจใใใฐใใชใใกใใญใ(^_โ)โโ
Hi Maggieๅ ็,
Your site is back up, ใใใฃใ๏ผ
Never realised how many times I check your lessons until they were no longer there.
Anyway, my question:
Omitting and contracting things is quite common in casual speech, so just saying
-ใชใใ without ใชใใชใ makes sense.
But I think I also heard the polite -ใชใใใฐ, meaning to say โhave toโ, without any follow-up, which seems casual to me.
Is this natural, or did I perhaps simply misheard/misinterpret?
@Jay
Hi Jay
Yes, I am back!
OK, you mean like a finishing a sentence withใใชใใใฐ?
If so, I wouldnโt say โcasualโ but you leave the sentence without finishing on purpose.
So instead of saying ใชใใใฐใใใชใ you just omit ใใใชใ. The listener can tell what the speaker means.
ใใใใใชใใใฐ (I have to go now)
(casual ใใใใใชใใกใ๏ผใใใใใชใใ๏ผ
ใใฃใจใใใฐใใชใใใฐโฆ
๏ผcasual ใใฃใจใใใฐใใชใใกใ๏ผใใใฐใใชใใ๏ผ
Hi Maggie Sensei,
I found the following statement from instagram. With a dog picture and the dog looks not happy :)
ๅคใซใใงใชใใใใใใชใใฆใ้ช้ญใใใใฎใใใใใชใใใงใใใใญใ
Does that mean,
If not permitted to go outside, he is feeling not happy ( or displeasure )
ๅคใซใใงใชใใใ= ๅคใซใใงใชใใIF not outside ( or literally means โgoing outsideโ)
ใใใชใใฆใ๏ผใใใใชใใ Not allow / donโt do
Thanks for your advice.
Cheers
Kenz
@Kenz
Hi Kenz
ๅคใซใงใ = go outside
ๅคใซใงใชใใใฐใใใชใ=(the dog) has to go outside
โ(casual contraction)
ๅคใซใงใชใใใใใชใ
โใฆ form
ๅคใซใงใชใใใใใชใใฆ = has to go outside andโฆ/ Because the dog has to go out
Hi Maggie Sensei
ใใใใพใใใ
A million thanks for your advice. Youโre the best. !happyface!
Regards
Kenz
๏ผ Kenz
ใฉใใใใใพใใฆใKenz! :)
ใใใๅ ็ใๆฉใ่ฟไบใใใใใจใใใใใพใ๏ผใใๅใใฃใฆใใพใ *\(^o^)/*
@ใขใฌใฏใตใณใใฉ
ใฉใใใใใพใใฆ๏ผ
(NOTE FOR YOU: ใใๅใใฃใฆใใพใโโใใใงใใใใใใพใใใโใฎๆนใ่ช็ถใงใใใ๏ผ
Maggieๅ ็ใใใซใกใฏใ่ณชๅใใใใพใใใฉใใใชใใ ใใชใใกใ ใฎ้ๅปๅฝขใฏใฉใใงใใ๏ผ
@ใขใฌใฏใตใณใใฉ
ใใใซใกใฏใใขใฌใฏใตใณใใฉ
ใชใใใใชใใกใใฎ้ๅปใฏ= had to do somethingใฎๅ ดๅใฏ
ใชใใใใใชใโใชใใใใใชใใฃใใ๏ผใชใใใชใใชใ
ใชใใกใใใใชใโใชใใกใใใใชใใฃใ๏ผใชใใกใใชใใชใ
ใฎๅฝขใชใ่กจใใใจใใงใใพใใ
Ex. I had to go shopping. ่ฒทใ็ฉใซ่กใใชใใ๏ผใชใใกใใใใชใใฃใใ
Ex. I had to work. ไปไบใใชใใกใใชใใชใใฃใ๏ผใใใใชใใชใใฃใใ
Hi Maggie!
I have a question. The next sentence:
ๅฏใชใใใฐใใใชใใฎใซใใใฌใใฒใผใ ใง้ใใงใใพใใพใใใ
When changed into casual style, becomes:
ๅฏใชใใใชใฎใซใใใฌใใฒใผใ ใง้ใใใใฃใใ
or at least according to my grammar bookโฆ But my question is, why the ใชใafter ใชใใ?
Thans a lot!
@Mariana
Hi Mariana,
ๅฏใชใใใฐใใใชใใฎใซใใใฌใใฒใผใ ใง้ใใงใใพใใพใใใ
the casual form is
ๅฏใชใใใใใชใใฎใซใใใฌใใฒใผใ ใง้ใใใใฃใใ
If your textbook says ๅฏใชใใใชใฎใซ, it must be a mistake. Unless it covers a super colloquial Japanese.
In slang, you use ๅฏใชใใ as a noun. ๏ผIt is from a quoteใใใๅฏใชใใ๏ผใใใชใชใ๏ผใ) Since it is considered as a noun, you use ใช
ๅฏใชใใใชใฎใซโฆ
ใใๅฏใชใใใ ใใ(female speech)
But this is super colloquial I doubt the textbook has that expressionโฆ
ใใฎใผๅ ็ใๅฎใฏๆฅๆฌ่ชใฎๆ็งๆธใฏใใฃใจๅฃ่ชๆใซใชใใใงใใใญใ
ๅๅนดใใใๅใๅใใฆๆฅๆฌ่ชใๅๅผทใใๆใซใใขใกใชใซไบบใฎๅคงๅญฆ็ใซใใชใใใใจใใชใใกใใใๆใใพใใใไปๅนดใฎใๅ ๆฐ2ใใจใใๆ็งๆธใซใฏใใใชใใกใใใจใใชใใใใๆใใพใใใณใฃใใใใพใ๏ผ
(Trying to say: Actually, Maggie-sensei, textbooks have been getting more colloquial. I studied Japanese for the first time perhaps ten years ago, and then we were not taught ใชใใ / ใชใใกใ, but in my Genki II textbook this year we were taught these forms!ใไธ้ฉๅใช่จ่้ฃใใใใใพใใใใ็ณใ่จณใใใพใใใ)
oops, that should say ๆใใพใใใใnot ๆใใพใใ. In my defense, I usually use plain forms as conjunctions, but I was trying to be a bit more polite for Maggie-sensei.
@Eri
ใใใซใกใฏใEri!
ใใใงใใญใๆฎ้ใฎไผ่ฉฑใงใใใชใใใใใใชใใกใใใฏใใไฝฟใใฎใงๆ็งๆธใงใๆใใฆๆนใใใใจๆใใพใใ
Note for Eri
Eriใฎๆฅๆฌ่ชใซใไธ้ฉๅใช่จ่ใฏใชใใงใใใๅฐใใๆไผใใใพใใญใ
๏ผ๏ผๅนดใใใๅใซๅใใฆๆฅๆฌ่ชใๅๅผทใใๆใซใฏใใใชใใใใใชใใกใใใฏ็ฟใใพใใใงใใใใ
๏ผIf you want to use โwere not taughtโ โๆใใใใพใใใงใใ (Passive form) but ๆใใฆใใใใพใใใงใใ is more natural)
ไปๅนดใฎใๅ ๆฐ2ใใจใใๆ็งๆธใงใฏใใใๆใใฆใใใพใใ
(If you want to use ใซใฏ
ไปๅนดใฎใๅ ๆฐ2ใใจใใๆ็งๆธใซใฏใใใใใใพใใor ๆธใใฆใใใพใ๏ผ
ใณใฃใใใใพใ is fine. But you were surprised so ใณใฃใใใใพใใ/ ้ฉใใพใใ may be better.)
ใใใชใใใใใชใ <if someone said this, is it a positive terms or negative terms?
thank you :-D
@Miiko
Not negative or positive.
If someone is talking to oneself, it simply means โI have to do it / I gotta do itโ
If that person is talking to someone else, ใใใชใใใใใชใใงใใ= You have to do it.
Thank you for helping Sensei!
Hope youโll have a great day! ๏ผผ(^o^)๏ผ
@Miiko
Youโre very welcome!
Hope you have a nice weekend,too!! :)
Sensei, Hello!
I have a question, Iโve heard recently while watching a dorama, a character (a very very informal one) saying the positive version of nakya all the time. When he used it, it was like giving advice or telling โyou shouldโฆโ, so I inferred from that:
ikya > ikereba > ikereba ii > you should go ยฟ? maybe ยฟ? Is this used to give advice as well?
Is it some dialect? The city was Tokyo but that character used like some kind of dialect, or he was really really informal, I think
arigatou!
@Sarah
Hello Sarah
Yes, see my examples
โ When you tell other people what to do.
โ When you tell other people what to do and the possible consequences.
They all mean โyou shouldโ or โI shouldโ (If you are talking to yourself, โI shouldโ/ โWe shouldโ and if you are talking to someone else what they should do โYou shouldโ)
Ex. ใใฃใจใใใฐใใชใใ๏ผ= You should try harder.ใor I should study harder.
Ex. ๅๅผทใใชใใ! = You should study! or I should study!
ใใใฎๅ ็ใใใใ๏ผใๆ่ฟใญใณใใซใฎๆฌใ่ฒทใฃใใใกใใฃใจ้ฃในใกใใฃใใใคๅใใจ่จใใใใใใ้ทใๅฅใใใใ
ใใชใใกใใใใชใใฃใฆใใฃใฆใฉใใใๆๅณ๏ผ I assume the โnakuchaโ here is โ็กใโ? and why does the phrase end with ใใฃใฆใ? Is it just a casual ending to make it more childish?
ๆๆฅญใจใฉใใใใใใจใ๏ผ
ใพใใฏ, is there any specific reason to use ~ใใชใใฆ versus ๏ฝใใชใใใฐใorใ๏ฝใชใใใvsใ๏ฝใชใกใ?
็ใใใใใใฉใกใใใงใใใใใใจ่จใใ
ใใใๆธใ็ดใใฆใใ ใใใญ๏ผ
@Emma
ใใใซใกใฏใEmma!
I need the whole sentence to understand the context better but
โใชใใกใใใใชใโใis a casual contraction of ใชใใฆใฏใใใชใใ
It shouldnโt be the state of โใชใโ so it means โyou have to have something/ you canโt omit (skip) itโ
Ex.ใใฎๆ็ซ ใงๅฉ่ฉใฏใชใใฆใฏใใใพใใใ
= Kono bunshou de joshi wa nakute wa ikemasen.
= You have to have a particle in this sentence.(You canโt skip the particle in this sentence.)
โ(casual contraction)
ใใฎๆ็ซ ใงๅฉ่ฉใฏใชใใกใใใใชใ
= Kono bunshou de joshi wa nakucha ikenai.
If it combines with other verb
Ex. ้ฃในใชใใกใใใใชใ= tabenakucha ikenai = have to eat something
Ex. ๅๅผทใใชใใกใใใใชใ= benkyou shinakucha ikenai = have to study
And I need to know the previous sentence ใฃใฆ is usually used to quote what someone has just said.
Someone said โ~~~~~โ
โSomeoneใใใใใฃใฆ(่จใฃใฆใใพใใใ๏ผ
Generally ใชใใใใชใใกใ form is for casual speech.
Maggie-sensei, thank you for all the help you give!
Could you please explain this use of ใชใใ?
Itโs from Over the Distance by Hitomi Yaida. Iโm trying to translate it, but there are some parts that confuse me.
็ฉบใงๅใใชใๅฐ้ณฅใฎๅฃฐใฟใใ
ใใใชใซ่ฆใใ ใ ใใฉใใชใใใใชใใ
I get it up to ใ ใใฉ. But the use of ใชใใ here is confusing me.
Also a nakya here:
ไธๆใๆณณใใชใใใฎๆใฎๆชๆฅ
ใฉใใใฆใ้ ใ ใ ใใฉใใชใใใใชใใๆๅณใชใ
(In fact, that entire verse confuses me, especially the first bit. Sorry to ask so much, but can you explain how these sentences work?)
ใฉใใใใใใจใๅ ็!
@Silver
Hello Silver,
ใใชใใใใชใใ a casual contraction of ใใชใใงใชใใฆใฏ and it omitted ใใใชใ(ใฎ๏ผ
and it means โIt has to be youโ
So โ(the person I love) has to be you even if it hurts me this much (the first line) / thought it is very far (the second line)
ๆไผใ(?)ใใใใจใ๏ผ
Thank you! I have been wondering about that line for a long time. Now it makes sense!
I am still confused about the second verse though
ไธๆใๆณณใใชใ = Cannot swim well
ใใฎๆใฎๆชๆฅ = That time in the future (?)
ใฉใใใฆใ้ ใ ใ ใใฉ = even though it is very far
ใใชใใใใชใใๆๅณใชใ = without you it means nothing
Have I got that right? The reason it is confusing me is the use of ๆณณใ. Is this a metaphorical phrase here, because literally it doesnโt make sense. How would you put it all together?
[Sorry to ask so much. It is just that recently Iโve had a few hits from Japanese people looking up my English translation, and I donโt want them to be learning it wrong because my translation skills are so bad :'( Iโve put the link to it as my URL if anyone wants to check over it]
[ใใฎใผๅ ็ใฏใใจใฆใใซใฏใคใคใฎใงใใใใฎใผใกใใใใใจ่จใใใใงใใญ๏ผ]
๏ผ Silver
(โๆไผใฃใฆใใใฆใใใใจใ๏ผ
I think you are doing great.
It is very hard to translate lyrics.
First I will help you line by line
ไธๆใๆณณใใชใ = Cannot swim wellใโ Right.
ใใฎๆใฎๆชๆฅ = That time in the future (?) โYour translation means โๆชๆฅใฎใใฎๆ โThat time in the futureโ means โthe future at that timeโ
Now if you put these two lines together.
โ
ไธๆใๆณณใใชใ ใใฎๆใฎๆชๆฅ
You are right. It doesnโt make sense because it is a poetic expression but it means
I couldnโt swim well in โmy futureโ then.
ใฉใใใฆใ้ ใ ใ ใใฉ = even though it is very far โFine. (Itโs far butโฆ)
ใใชใใใใชใใๆๅณใชใ = without you it means nothing โFine but that means โใใชใใใใชใใจ๏ผใใชใใใใชใใ๏ผๆๅณใใชใโใthe literal meaning is โIt has to be you.โ
Again when you put these two lines together,
โYou are too far from me but it has to be you.
Howโs that?
ๆไผใฃใฆใใใฆใใใใจใ!! ๅใใใพใใ๏ผ
Thatโs a really big help, thank you so much! I never would have been able to understand it without your explanation. So I will copy this out and read over it a few more times so I properly understand it. Thank you, Maggie-sensei and Yukari-sama!! Finally I know what Hitomi-san is singing about :D
@Silver
ใฉใใใใใพใใฆ๏ผใใจใฏSilverใฎใปใณในใง่จณใใฆใฟใฆใญใใใใฐใฃใฆ๏ผ:)
ใใฎใผๅ ็, thank you for the wonderful breakdown of ใชใใใฐใปใชใใฆใฏใใใชใ toใใชใใใปใชใใกใ.
It makes a lot of sense, so in fact, I quite understand it now.
But, I do have a question about the ใชใใ when it isใใชใใใใ. Is itใใชใใใฐใใ? orใใชใใฆใใ?
I was reading this manga, and the narration was ๅคใใใชใใใใ. Iโve only seen ใชใใใฐ with the negative, so it confuses me with the positive.
Thank you!!
@Tilly
Hi Tilly,
OK, ๅคใใใชใใใใ is a casual contraction of ๅคใใใชใใใฐใใ
Other examples
*ใใชใใใฐใใโใใชใใใใ
Ex. ~ใใใใใชใใใฐใใชใใใใใฎใซใ
If you donโt want to do ใ, you donโt have to do that.
*ใชใใชใใใฐใใโใชใใชใใใใ
Ex. ใใใชใใจใซใชใใชใใใใใโฆ
= I hope it wonโt happen.
Maggie-sensei,
Thank you so much for the explanation and clarification.
Your blog is super helpful, I wish I had found it sooner!
@Tilly
Youโre very welcome, Tilly!
And I am very happy to hear my site is helpful.
Feel free to come visit me anytime!
Dear Maggie san:
Folks in Kyoto-shi say kakanaitokyaikemasen (I have to write it). My Genki 1 textbook says the modal is nakyaikemasen without โito.โ Why, and what is โito,โ please.
@Gordon Tippett
Hello, Gordon!
I think your host family in Kyoto said
ๆธใใชใใจใใใพใใใ
= Kakanai to ikemasen.
Not
ๆธใใชใใจใใใใใพใใใ
= Kakanai to kya ikemasen.
(This doesnโt make any sense..)
There are a couple of ways to say โYou have to do something.โ
1) ~ใชใใจใใใพใใใ(=~ nai to ikemasen.)
โthe casual contraction is ใใชใใกใใใใพใใใ(= ~ nakucha ikemasen.)
Ex. ๆธใใชใใจใใใพใใใ(=kakanai to ikemasen.)โๆธใใชใใกใใใใพใใใ(=kakanakucha ikemasen.)
or
2) ใใชใใใฐใใใพใใใ(= ~ nakereba ikemasen.)
โthe casual contraction is ~ใชใใใใใพใใใ(= nakya ikemasen.)
Ex. ๆธใใชใใใฐใใใพใใใ(= kakanakereba ikemasen) โๆธใใชใใใใใพใใใ
So both ๆธใใชใใจใใใพใใ(=kakanaito ikemasen) and ๆธใใชใใใใใพใใใ(โ=kakanakya ikemasen) works when you want to say โhave to writeโ
ใใใซใกใฏใๅ ็!
ไธใคใฎ่จญๅใใใใพใใใ๏ฝข๏ฝใชใใฆใฏใชใใชใ๏ฝฃใจ๏ฝข๏ฝใชใใใฐใชใใชใ๏ฝฃใฏๅคงไฝๅใใงใใ?
ใใไธๅบฆใๆใ้ฃใใใใใพใ!!
@Orti
ใฏใใๅคงไฝๅใใใใซไฝฟใฃใฆใใพใใ
But if you want to know the slight difference,
While ใชใใใฐใใใชใ can be used to tell people what to do, ใชใใใฐใชใใชใ is used when you have to follow certain rules, laws, certain obligations and you canโt know decide whether you do it or not on your own will.
๏ผ A little correction : ่จญๅโ่ณชๅ๏ผ
Thanks for your explanationใand correction, sensei!
whatโs the difference between ่จญๅใand ่ณชๅ๏ผใthey both appear as โQuestionโ in the dictionary :S
ใใฃใจใใใ and is there any difference between โใชใใใฐใชใใชใโ and โใชใใฆใฏใชใใชใโ?
@Orti
่ณชๅ๏ผ่จญๅใThey both mean question(s)
่ณชๅใปใปใปquestion, inquiry , when you ask someone about the things you donโt understand
่จญๅใปใปใปposing a question : when you ask someone a question that you already know the answer. (to test/quiz someone)
So when you have a question for me, ่ณชๅใใใใพใ is better.
โใชใใใฐใชใใชใโ and โใชใใฆใฏใชใใชใโ
About the same. ใชใใใฐใชใใชใ is slightly more formal but not much difference.
ๅใใใพใใ๏ผพ๏ผพ
ใใคใ่ณชๅใ็ญใใฆๆใ้ฃใใใใใพใใๅ ็!!
@Orti
ใฉใใใใใพใใฆ๏ผ
(ใใไธใคโฆ..่ณชๅโใซโ็ญใใโฆ) !happyface!
ใขใกใกใใใใใใจใ๏ผ
ใฆใกใใ ใขใณใบๅ ็ใใใพใๆใใใใพใใญ๏ผ(^_^)/ (็ฌ)
ใใฎใฌใในใณใใพใๆฅฝใใพใใใ
@Phylisscyn
ใขใณใบๅ ็ใใใใใญ๏ผ !heart!
๏ผA little correction : ใใฎใฌใในใณใใพใๆฅฝใใพใใใโใใฎใฌใในใณใใพใๆฅฝใใใฃใใงใใ๏ผ
This is so useful (^^)
but I was wondering, how does the nakya/nakucha form conjugate? Are they like na-adjectives or nouns etc? For example, if you were to say โI have to make dinner and/then I have to walk my dogโ, would you say:
ใ้ฃฏใไฝใใชใใใงใ็ฌใๆฃๆญฉใใใชใใ
Thank you ^^
@pudding
Hi, pudding!
OK since ใชใใ and ใชใใกใ is a part of ใชใใ๏ผใชใใกใใใใชใ, you use ใใใชใ part to conjugate.
I have to make dinner and (on top of that) I also have to walk my dog.
You just connect two sentences using ใ
= ใ้ฃฏใไฝใใชใใ(or ไฝใใชใใกใ๏ผใใใชใใ็ฌใๆฃๆญฉใใใชใใ๏ผor ๆฃๆญฉใใใชใใกใ๏ผใใใชใใ
ๅ ็ใผๅฏใฆใชใใจใใกใใจๅฏใชใใกใใใกใงใใใฏๅใๆๅณใงใใ๏ผ
@stenier
ๅฏใฆใชใใจใใก : ไพ(ใใจ๏ผใใฐ็ ๆฐ๏ผใณใใใ๏ผใจใใงๅฏใฆใใ็ถๆ ๏ผใใใใใ๏ผใปๆจชใใใฃใฆใใ็ถๆ ใงใใชใใจใใใชใไบบใซ่จใใพใใ
(Keep lying down, Stay in bed)
ๅฏใชใใใใก๏ผใใฃใจๅฏใฆใใชใใฆ่ตท๏ผใ๏ผใใฆใใไบบใซ่จ๏ผใ๏ผใใพใใ(You should sleep. Go to bed! )
ๅ ็่ชฌๆๆ้ฃใ๏ผ๏ผใ
@stenier
ใฉใใใใใพใใฆ๏ผ
ๅ ็ใใใใฎ2ใคใฎๆผขๅญใฎ้ใใฏไฝใงใใ๏ผ่ใใ่ดใ
@steiner
ใ่ใใis more general. ่ดใ is mainly used when you listen to something more attentively or intentionally listen to something. Like music, lecture, etc.
้ณๆฅฝใ่ดใ, ่ฌ็พฉใ่ดใ
ใชใใปใฉใๆ้ฃใใใใใพใ
@steinier
ใฉใใใใใพใใฆ๏ผ
domou arigatou sensei^_^..
its help me a lot..thank you!!!
@Faika
ใใกใใใ๏ผใตใคใใซใใฆใใใฆใใใใจใ๏ผใพใใใฆใญ๏ผ :)
Ahmm. ใใไบใใตใคใใงใใใใๅ ็ใโใใกใใใโใฃใฆ่จใใฎใฏๆใใฆใใใพใใใ๏ผใใใใจใ๏ผbookmarkใใใฏใใ ๏ผใ
@Ron
Hi Ron!ใๆฅใฆใใใฆใใใใจใ๏ผ
ใใใกใใใใใฎไฝฟใๆนใงใใ๏ผ
Ex. A : ใใใใใจใ๏ผใ Thank you! B : ใใใกใใใ๏ผใMe,too.
Ex. A : ใใใใใใ้กใใใพใใใNice to meet you!B : ใใใกใใใ๏ผใ Nice to meet you,too!
Ex. A : ใไผใใฆใใใใใงใใใItโs a pleasure to meet you. B : ใใใกใใใ๏ผใLikewise
Ex. A: ใๅพก่ฟทๆใใใใใใใใพใใใใI am terribly. B : ใใใกใใใโฆ.ใMe,too.
So ใใกใ refers to you or your side. So instead of repeating the same thing, you say this to the person.
Is it clear?
ใใฎใใๅ ็ใๆใ ใโใใๆใใพใโใฃใฆใโ็งใโใฃใฆใใ่ฟไบใงใใใใจใใใใใ ใๅใไฝฟ็จใ ใใใ
@Ron
ใใใใชใใใ่ณชๅ๏ผใใคใใ๏ผใฎๆๅณ๏ผใใฟ๏ผใใใใใใใชใใฎใงใใใ
So you want to ask,
Q : ใใใๆใใพใใใจใ็งใใใฎไฝฟใๆนใๅใใงใใ๏ผ
If soโฆthey are different.
ใใๆใใพใ = I think so
็งใ = me,too
If you say ็งใใใๆใใพใ, it means โ I think so,too.โ
ใใใใชใใใโใใกใใใโใฎไฝฟใๆนใๆฌๅฝใซใพใ ใฏใฃใใใใใใพใใ่ณชๅใฏโใใๆใใพใโใจโ็งใโใฃใฆใใใฎใใๆใ ใ่ฟไบใงใใใใญ?ใฉใใใใใใจใๅ ็ใ
@Ron
OK, first let me help your sentences. โใใกใใใโใฎไฝฟใๆนใๆฌๅฝใซใพใ ใฏใฃใใใใใใพใใโYou know clearly how to useโใใกใใใโ? Then say, ใใกใใใใฎไฝฟใๆนใฏใใใฏใฃใใใใใใพใใ
ใใ = already ใพใ = not yet
โๆใ ่ฟไบใงใใโ means โYou can answer once in a while.โ I assume you sometimes get confused when to use โ็งใโ and โใใๆใใพใโ
Then I hope I answered your questions in my last comment.
ใใๆใใพใ is used only when you agree with someone.
็งใ just means, โme,tooโ
Try these :
Ex. ็งใฏใซใฌใผใๅฅฝใใงใใใWhich one do you use?ใโ โ็งใโ or โใใๆใใพใโ
Ex. ใใฎใผใฏใใใใใงใใWhich one do you use?ใโ โ็งใโ or โใใๆใใพใโ
If you want, follow me on twitter. We can practice there.
Nice, never seen your lessons before, I like how they are all in Kanji, keep it up!
@Stevo
Hi Stevo! Thank you for visiting my site! ใพใๆฅ๏ผใ๏ผใฆใญ๏ผ :)
Canใใชใใกใ and ใใชใใใbe used by both girls and boys? Is one more girly then the other one?
Thank you
@Van
Yes, men and women both can use these forms.
Great lesson ใใฎใผๅ ็๏ผ้ข็ฝใใฃใใงใใ๏ฝ
ใใใใผใใซๆธใ็ตใใใพใใใ
ๆฌๅฝใซใใใใจใใใใใพใ๏ฝ
ใใ่กใใชใใ๏ฝ๏ฝ
@Rafael
ใใกใใใใใใใจใ๏ผ๏ผ
ใใๅฎ็ง๏ผใใใบใ๏ผใซไฝฟใใใญ๏ผ
So, ๏ฝใชใใใand ๏ฝใชใใกใใcan be used interchangeably? Or, is there some difference in usage?
@Danielle:Canada
Hi, Danielle! ~ใชใใ and ~ใชใใกใ can be used interchangeably in most cases. Some says they have exactly the same meaning but to be precise, there is a slight difference.
~ใชใใ is a bit stronger than ~ใชใใกใ. If we feel something has to be done urgently or we really feel obliged to do something we tend to use ~ใชใใ.
ใใใใจใใใใใพใ! That helps